USHJA On Course Episode 25

USHJA: Welcome back to USHJA On Course. I'm Terisé, and this month I'm joined by Hunter turned Jumper rider Maya Schneider. Before we jump in, here are your association updates.

Nominations for USHJA’s Annual Awards and applications for Youth Awards are now open. Visit ushja.org/awards for a list of awards and to nominate the deserving individuals you know.

We're officially just six months away from the 2023 Marshall and Sterling Insurance/USHJA National Championships on November 13-19 in Las Vegas. Keep an eye out for qualifying and application information coming soon.

The summer show season is upon us. Be sure to tag USHJA on social media when you participate in any of our championships or programs.

USHJA: A longtime Hunter rider, Maya Schneider recently made the switch to the Jumper ring where she and her horse, Noble, were members of the winning 1.10/1.15m Adult Amateur Jumper team at the 2022 Markel/USHJA Zone Jumper Team Championships in Saugerties. She's also an active participant in diversity, equity and inclusion efforts as a member of USHJA’s DEI committee and a manager of the @blackequestrians Instagram account.

Tune in as we chat all about her transition to Jumpers and her passion for inclusion in the sport.

USHJA: We can hop right in. How did you first get started into horses and when?

Maya Schneider: Okay. Let's see. I started riding like just exclusively at summer camp. I don't remember when that started, but in middle school, one of my friends was going to Thanksgiving camp at a local barn. And so my parents were in agreement with that. And then that like segued into weekly lessons. And then I just kept like weaseling my way into more.

USHJA: It spirals out of control quick.

Maya Schneider: Well, I didn't get the best grades and my parents, you know, kept trying to like bribe me with a horse. They were like, if you get straight A's, we'll get you a horse. And then finally they're like, how about you pass your classes? I got my first horse when I was 16 and I had like one and a half junior years. So needless to say, I didn't accomplish much as a junior but…

USHJA: You, as an adult, started in the hunters right? And then you recently-ish have made the switch over to the dark side—to the jumper side of things.

Maya Schneider: Lifelong devoted, was like, I will never, I don't want to do the jumpers. I can't see that. You know, in my “I won the lottery” scenario, a jumper was like the sixth horse I would've bought. It would have been like two AOs—one at each height or two at each height—then an equitation horse. And then, I mean, I guess, what else do you need at that point?

USHJA: So, what led to that discipline switch for you?

Maya Schneider: My horse. So I bought him to be my AO hunter. He did up to like the 1.40m, I think, in Europe. And we got him from Daniel Geitner. He'd just come over, like he'd been here for a month, hadn't been to a horse show. I don't even know if he'd like stepped off property. But everything about him makes sense that he would be a lovely hunter.

He's quiet. And the first time I tried him, I mean, I guess it might have been kind of the writing on the wall. I thought I was getting run away with and he just didn't have brakes. But I was glad I kept riding. Like I wanted to get off after we started trotting. But then, come to find out, he hadn't been ridden in two days and it was dinnertime and the sun was setting. So I'm like, yeah, alright.

So we spent like a year trying to kind of get him broke and get him quiet and learn the hunter job, and at home we got to the point where we quiet in the warmup ring and then we would walk into the show ring and be like, “all right!” And, that part never really went away. He wasn't bad. He just was like, “what's over there?” So the jumpers are great because he is like looking around trying to figure out what's next, and he is just, he's very happy.

It was first suggested, my trainer was like what do you think about doing a, a jumper class? And I'm being like, I don't know how that's—in my head, I didn't say it out loud—how is that going to help him be my AO hunter? Like, no, I don't want to do that. So she's like, I think, I'll try him, see how he does in the jumper ring. And then I watched that weekend and I was like, well, clearly that's what he's supposed to do. And I was like, I'm willing to try it.

USHJA: So you really were forced to make that decision because it was what was best for your horse as opposed to maybe what your goals were at the time.

Maya Schneider: Yeah. I mean, it was funny, the first weekend he did the jumpers, at least when we had him, I was in the warmup ring and someone happened to be looking for horses that fit my horse's description. And so I was like, well, I don't know what I want to do, but like, I'm always of the mindset that you don't turn down money, that anything could happen. And if someone offers you like a lot of money, you should be like, “Okay, fine. I'll cry my way to the bank.” Different in practice but…So then someone tried him and then I was watching him like, I don't really, I don't want to. So it was actually helpful seeing him with someone else being like, I really don't want to tell him,

His number is stupid. So if someone really wants to pay that, then like, I would be dumb. But then if anyone sits on him, I'm like, why? My number is not dumb enough then.

But after my first class when I had lovely wide turns and used all the ring with 11 times faults, I’m like I want to get better at that.

USHJA: Was it hard to make that decision to make that switch? That's a common impasse that riders come to and you have to make the decision of do you pause your goals to do what's best for your horse, or do you sell your horse to do what's best for you? Was it hard for you to make that choice?

Maya Schneider: I think if I hadn't known him for a year and loved him, it would've been just like, “okay, bye.” I don't think I would've felt comfortable going into the jumper ring if I hadn't had that much of like a comfort level with my horse and trust.

And like he's so happy in the jumper ring. It went surprisingly well. I was able to get ribbons in the low adults. I mean, I have yet to win a class, but I've been second, which is still like shocking to me! It was like twice now, after a year, I've had the fastest time in the jump off but have had a rail because I got nervous and frazzled.

But yeah, I can't imagine having done it with any other trainer. She's so chill and I don't think the stars could have lined up in any other way where it would have worked for me. It was not a hard decision in terms of what my horse should do. And then it was just, “will I enjoy this? Can I imagine doing this?” And if I step back and think about it, it's like still perplexing to me. But I'm here for all of the jumper attire!

USHJA: There's much more opportunity for bling, you can have more fun.

Maya Schneider: Oh, if anyone looks at my Instagram, I have a helmet that is like 90% sparkle, but subtle sparkle. It's funny, it photographs matte. They're like matte sparkles. And I would rock that in a derby. Like I, I think you can do it. I mean obviously you'd have to know who the judges are. Some might just be like, that is offensive and you'd get a zero. I've always kind of like pushed the limits a little. Like even within the hunters, like I have navy boots and I have a navy helmet and was within the box, but like, on the edge.

USHJA: What aspects from the hunter ring do you think you've kind of pulled over into the jumpers?

Maya Schneider: I think it's like you have a really good foundation. So I think it's what helped, like I started in the lows. Like track and I mean, what I had to work on was pace. But I think being accurate and consistent has been helpful. And for me it's just pace and getting my brain to work on jumper time.

USHJA: What advice would you give to another amateur that's maybe looking at having to make that same decision and maybe have to switch disciplines?

Maya Schneider: I mean, I think it, what it would come down to is how much do you want to keep the partnership with your horse? And so, if your horse is telling you it wants to do something different and you want to keep your horse, then I think, you know, give it a try and try to enjoy the process.

If it had been a couple months, I very well could have made a completely different decision because when I think the prospect of not knowing my horse and then being expected to go jump massive jumps doing a thing I like never thought I wanted to do. I think more people are probably switching disciplines because they were like, “I want to go do that!”

But, you know, kind of being in a place where you're like at a very distinct crossroads that you did not anticipate. I'm glad I did. I think I, you know, I still love the hunters and would like to do the hunters. I just have to figure out how to make two happen at some point. But I think, I know people have said how the jumpers can help and I've always gone too slow, always across all the things I've ever done. And so I do think I'd be like so much better at like, galloping in the hunter ring and like finding distances out of the gallop.

USHJA: Once you swap back to the hunters, we'll have to have you back on and be like, “okay, so what was it like switching back?”

Maya Schneider: Not switching! Because I'm going to have another one!

USHJA: Well, your transition to the jumpers couldn't have been too bad—you were on the winning team for the 1.10/1.15m Adult Amateurs at the Markel/USHJA Zone Jumper Team Championships last year. What was your experience doing that?

Maya Schneider: So I actually had done the hunter equivalent twice. And it's so much fun. You get to meet so many people and you know, it's really cool. The kind of Nation's Cup format, and then hoping you can qualify for the individual round. I think most people tend to cheer on their competitors, but it's very different when you're cheering for your team and, I think doing well has a different kind of meaning when you want to do well for your teammates and don't want to be the one who messes things up.

I know when I did the Hunters, I had a three-person team, so there was no drop score and I was like, “oh God, just so much pressure.”

USHJA: So what are some of your big goals now going into the jumpers for another year? What are you hoping to accomplish short-term and then long-term?

Maya Schneider: So I think, you know, similar goals, like I have a bucket list for shows that I've always wanted to go to and…

USHJA: You just qualified for Devon!

Maya Schneider: I know, which is crazy. It was like a roller coaster because with the two lists coming out, like the first list I was ninth on the waiting list and had the same points as two other people. And I'm like, “okay, well that's not happening.” And so my trainer and I talked, I was like, it does not seem likely I'm coming off the waiting list. So if the barn wants to go do something else, I don't think everyone needs to be like, are they? Aren't they? It's fine. I can just try another year.

And then I saw the post on Instagram. I was like, huh. And then I looked, I was like, oh, I have 192 more points and now I'm thirteenth. Like, I qualified for real. So I was like, I guess I have to talk to my trainer. Since we talked about not going, did other plans get set in motion in the, you know, five days since we had that conversation?

So my goal is indoors again, which last year was again, like crazy that I had never gone to indoors before. And I sent in entries for Capital Challenge, Washington and Harrisburg and I got into all three. I accidentally got into the high amateurs at Harrisburg as well. I think I just clicked everything that said “high” and I was like, oh god.

Like, I never have any worry going to the jumps with my horse; he's great. But my worry is always like, will I stay on? Because he jumps really well. Like the first time I did the 1.10m, I like starfished off at the second to last jump. I just crawled. I did like a nice inside turn so far behind the pace and you know, he was great and he wants to jump clean and so he didn't touch it and I had no chance of staying on. My trainer was like so no classic tomorrow I was like, well, good thing I can do the low classic the next week. She's like, well, you could do the highs, but still no classic. And I was like I’ll wait till I'm ready to do all the things. I'm good.

It was funny, before this year I was talking to my trainer, I was like, do I focus on going to indoors again and trying to do well in the high adults or do I like focus on trying to move up to the lows and she's like we do both. In the beginning of the year, work on getting your points and then when you're in a good place, then you can start looking at adding the lows in.

And I was again, like, take a step back and I'm like, who is this human that's talking about jumping 4’? Like at most I could always imagine like maybe the four high options in an International Derby. And that was my goal with my horse, I'd like to do an International Derby and maybe Derby finals, you know, in like a concept. I'm like, we'll see. He can definitely do it, but maybe when he's 15 he will be quieter!

USHJA: You are also heavily involved in a lot of DEI stuff—diversity, equity, inclusion for anyone listening that doesn't know. You manage the Black Equestrians Instagram account. Were you one of the founders? Were you part of the startup of that, or how did that come to be?

Maya Schneider: Jen Spencer is the one who started the account and it was in the wake of George Floyd. I don't remember how long it took me to come across the page.

Being able to create the online community has just been amazing. When I'd go to horse shows, the number of times I would see another Black rider were like few and far between. I think the first time I ever saw someone else was Mavis Spencer and there was another, I think Nikki Adams was her name, and everyone would be like, “Oh my God, there's three of us at Indo”—Thermal to young people—just being like, it's so crazy. I remember being able to count, like there's three of us! 10 at WEF! For the first time, I have a group of friends who are Black riders, which is amazing. I think that the representation is helpful. I think it's amazing for people to be able to like see that like, oh, okay, maybe this is something that I can do. That's something that's amazing.

So I would just send any horse show results I came across from any Black rider that I'd seen or follow. And then at one point I was like I'd be happy to just post these on the page if you guys would like any help instead of me just bombarding you with all of these horse show results. And apparently that was appealing. So then I was able to participate.

I'm very happy to be one of the people managing and helping with visibility. It’s definitely difficult to kind of do as much as we would like. We both have lives and a lot going on. It's not our full-time job, so it can be hard to kind of keep up with trying to figure out how to. You know, is there a more expedient way of being able to focus and feature people?

USHJA: Yeah. What has it been like watching that community flourish? As a member of that community, you're now building that community and watching it succeed with the efforts that you're putting in, but also the efforts of your peers. What has that been like?

Maya Schneider: It's really rewarding. I'm happy to be a part of the change. It's exciting to see change, you know, I'm hopeful for the future. I think the committee is doing a lot. I think, you know, that there's just such a need for education and I wish more people understood kind of the intention behind the education. That the intention isn't to tell everyone they're bad people. Like everyone, you know, we all have biases. We can all grow all the time. And the goal is for everyone to feel welcome and comfortable and, you know, it's uncomfortable for some to learn that you've been doing something wrong. And there can be a lot of guilt associated, but I think I wish more people were okay kind of leaning into that and just accept it and then work on doing better. I think too many people get stuck in kind of the defensive space and don't realize that really the reason is good, if you can kind of focus on that.

I don't know why anyone would not want people to feel welcome. Like if you kind of think about the positive lens of it, why we're doing it, you know, the growth can be a little uncomfortable, but worth it if people are willing to put in the effort for sure.

USHJA: Yeah. The focus is always to grow our sport, right? We want more riders. That's how you sustain the industry. And it's been amazing to see that change and to see it kind of progress. I think there's a long way to go for the sport but to watch it start going in the right direction.

Maya Schneider: Yeah, I mean, I think I am not what people picture as a traditional equestrian and there's definitely a lot of growth in terms of body neutrality and there's so much need and representation in diversity across, like in any way you can think of. I came across the latest, I think it was Tommy Hilfiger, their Instagram account. They’re maybe not body neutral, but they had a ton of different types of diversity and it's really nice to see.

USHJA: It just goes to show that that representation is so important.

Maya Schneider: Absolutely, and you know, I think especially if bigger companies are able to do that, I'm hopeful. I guess I just think that size is another area where people aren't aware that implicit bias is such a factor. I think it's horses can carry 20% of their body weight and like no one thinks about that. You know, when people say like, oh, you know, that's animal cruelty and it's like that person just doesn't fit your image of what the right fit is. But that doesn't mean they're outside of an appropriate weight for their horse. And, and the amount of people that feel comfortable just berating someone because they look different when it's based on something that they don't understand. Like they think it's some sort of scientific fact when it's not, it doesn't fit your perception.

The more that big brands are able to work on representation in all forms and then that's also something that will help and will have just a huge trickledown effect and can make this space so much comfortable for everyone involved.

It's so upsetting to know the number of people that just get harassed on social media and it's definitely something that needs to change. I think there's probably a lot more kind of overt attacking of people who are larger than the typical rider. You know, I think a lot of what people experience in terms of race tends to be a lot more like microaggressions.

And, you know, I think one of the things that always kind of strikes me is the number of people that just focus on, finances. And it's like the assumption that someone who's not white doesn't have money. That's a microaggression. There's definitely meaning behind why there's less wealth among people of color. But there are people of color who have money to be in this sport. I think that there are separate issues. So many people don't have access, and I think that's something that needs to change, but that isn't the same issue as our sport not being diverse. One thing is making it, welcoming to people who are diverse, who can currently access the sport, and then also working on how to make it more accessible to everyone based on finances.

Everything's just so complicated. There's so many different layers and it's a lot to think about.

USHJA: It's a process.

Maya Schneider: Absolutely. I think even just looking at the USHJA website, for the longest time there was Jordan Allen on the website and Rob and now there’s an array of people; it's beneficial for everyone.

It's beneficial for people of color to see themselves and feel like they belong. And especially with the governing body putting that out there. But then also it's helpful for white people to like not have an instant like “this is for white people.” I came across a TikTok where someone's like, “I'm embracing my whiteness by going to ride a horse.” And I'm just like, uh? I mean it's funny and also it's a concept that's there that needs to change that that's who the sport is for.

USHJA: Mm-hmm. In addition to the Black Equestrians Instagram account, you're also a member of the USHJA’s DEI committee. We've kind of talked about it at this point, but what inspired you to become a member and stay involved?

Maya Schneider: I think to be able to take a role and to try to do as much as I can to be a part of the change. I think it's really rewarding. There's people on the committee who have so much to offer—Hadley and Dominique—they work in DEI spaces as their profession. And I feel guilty just because they do so much. I keep hoping that there's going to magically be time to go get more professional education on all of the ways that we can help have a positive effect on change.

I just, I think it's really important. It's something that I'm passionate about. Teenage, school age child me, it would've been amazing to just be able to see and have as many people come and join. You know, I think that there's definitely times where people of color don't feel welcome and I don't want anyone to feel like that. I think that there's so many things that people say that they have no idea that they're offensive. And not everyone's comfortable giving people that feedback. And I think the more we can make change then other people won't have to have those same experiences.

But I think that there's some people who like the sport and participate, but like didn't drink the Kool-Aid as much as some, and to make this space more comfortable, I think that maybe more people would stick with it. I just want everyone to feel comfortable and feel like they belong.

USHJA: You kind of touched on what you're hoping to accomplish, but what do you hope to see the sport progress to in terms of DEI say five years down the line? What do you personally think that you would like to see?

Maya Schneider: I mean, I think I definitely would like to see more shift in terms of the number of people of color. I think that there are people that didn't identify before and hopefully people understand why and it's just nice to be able to have a marker to be able to track progress. I think just being able to see the sport be more representative of the population of the country.

And I think so many things, like ability and how accessible shows are. There's just so many things that we don't think about. As an able-bodied person, I didn't think about how inaccessible the sport is. Like bathrooms, getting to and from. If you're at a horse show where everything is dirt, if someone's in a wheelchair, parking. There's so many things that we can't conceive of everything that could happen. And when you learn something like, okay wow, something else we need to think about and make sure that people feel welcome.

And I think it would be amazing if more people spectated. I think that's one of the cool things about like WEC is the amount of people that they bring into that venue that know nothing about horses. It's really cool to see. I think people can appreciate it even if they don't ride. I think they do a lot to draw people in. And so maybe they come in for something else, like over the holidays they come in for the winter wonderland or whatever it's called. But then on Saturday, it's that and they happen to see horses and anything just to get more people involved in whatever capacity.

USHJA: What advice would you give to somebody who is maybe interested in either getting involved in DEI efforts, furthering the community. How would you guide them?

Maya Schneider: You know, I think a good place to start would be even just be to go on our website and look at the committee's page. There's educational resources. There's an email if people have questions or suggestions, we would love that. There's any number of ways to improve this aspect of our sport and I can't even conceive of like a fraction of them.

I think that we're trying to kind of take on, just baby steps and just keep making constant progress to work on making improvement. We're going to work with the Recognized Riding Academy. I think even just within USHJA, being able to partner with every committee that there's so many avenues. With competition management, I'm sure there's options in terms of how to bring more people into the sport, how to make it more welcoming. Like I know in California, Ali Nilforushan, he does a lot with the Compton Cowboys and I just think that there's so many opportunities to think about how to bring people into the sport and so many people needed. You know, I think we've had a lot of ideas and trying to have the manpower to tackle some of them.

USHJA: That DEI resources page has a lot on there. We've got bilingual signage on there, there's a bunch of toolkits for competition managers, archived webinars, our webinar series from this year.

Maya Schneider: It's so great that they're available for people to view later. So, you know, sometimes they're not at the most convenient times or just don't work with someone's schedule, but hopefully people know to go watch and listen.

USHJA: Well, our last little bit of our interview we call the Victory Gallop.

Bay, gray or chestnut?

Maya Schneider: I don't discriminate. I am open to anything and everything.

USHJA: One of each!

Maya Schneider: Yes. Obviously.

USHJA: The question is, which one is your hunter and which one is your Jumper?

Maya Schneider: Whichever one I can afford that is the nicest.

USHJA: Would you rather jump the long approach oxer or the trot jump?

Maya Schneider: Now, long approach oxer because it's been a while since I've done a trot jump in a show ring. It's been like since 2020 since I've jumped a trot jump in the show ring.

USHJA: If you got to live a day in the life of any rider, who would it be?

Maya Schneider: Hmm. Oh gosh. I feel like I just came up with like a handful.

USHJA: Give us three.

Maya Schneider: Okay. Stephanie Danhakl because her hunters are all just stunning. I'd say Callie Seaman, I love, she also has stunning hunters. She has lovely jumpers. I think I would definitely pick a junior or an amateur, because then it’s like maybe I could ride those animals. I want to own some of the professional horses, but like I know my limits.

USHJA: What is the last TV show or movie that you watched?

Maya Schneider: Bridgerton. The third season came out this morning and I've already watched two episodes like crazy.

USHJA: What are two things you can't get through a day at the barn without?

Maya Schneider: In the summer, spring, summer part of fall, fly spray. I don't like bugs. Like the most ridiculous person would ever, like if I'm grazing my horse, I graze with a bottle of fly spray. I'm a fly-free zone. Can you let know if his hair starts falling out? Because then I'll know it's too much fly spray.

Definitely at horse shows, my boots have to be pristine. I don't know. I always have everything.

USHJA: That's a good thing.

Maya Schneider: If anyone needs anything, they always like oh, you need like a blister band-aid? I got you. Hairnets? Literally anything you can conceive of. I have a wine and cheese bag that I bring to horse shows. In the computer slot I have cutting boards and I have utensils. I have an aerator. And this summer I've stepped up my game. I have a new cooler that has a beverage tank in it so I can have pre-made margaritas ready instead of making them to order. Someone nicknamed me last year Margarita Maya.

USHJA: Well, maybe bartending is your hidden talent, but do you have a hidden talent?

Maya Schneider: Oh, I love to cook. Goes in line with the bartending.

I mean it. I usually have a horse show set up. I’ll typically make guacamole. If I have enough time, I might make salsa as well. It just depends on how much time I have to go to the store and buy ingredients.

USHJA: What is your favorite horse show?

Maya Schneider: Ooh. Hmm. That's hard. I mean, I haven't met a horse show I don't like. There's definitely some I like more than others. Hampton is on my bucket list.

Devon is on my bucket list, but I haven't been yet, so this is going to be my first time. I know I have to try the lemonade. I hope I can get a shot. In front of the, where champions meet sign. Like bucket list is to have one of those pictures and I like make the most ridiculous faces. God willing, my face will cooperate when I am in that zone.

USHJA: Finally, describe your dream horse in three words.

Maya Schneider: My God, I am not succinct. This is very difficult. If you haven't noticed, I'm verbose. Kind, forgiving. Oh, I want to say four.

USHJA: You can say four, I'll allow it.

Maya Schneider: Okay. And sweet,

USHJA: That works! Forgiving. That would be one that I would need.

Well, that is all I have. Thank you so much for taking time out of the middle of your day to hop on.

Maya Schneider: Absolutely. This is a lot of fun.

USHJA: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of USHJA On Course. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss a single episode, and we'll see you next month.